I am one of the very few that I see that is FOR it. Everyone throws out there about "Gay Rights".. yadda yadda.. But It's not that easy- not in a military environment.
This is how I see it. What is the problem with the system now? I don't see a problem, I know other's may disagree, But I feel- "If is aint broke, don't fix it"!
As I'm writing this, I'm pushing aside my belief on whether I think homosexual relationships are right or wrong. That's not what this is about.
When you apply for a civilian job, They do not ask on the application if you are gay or straight. Why should they for military? System works just fine for civilians.. and it works pretty well for the military too in my opinion.
But that's not the Problem I see. The problem I see is this:
If the military does away with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" they will be forced to change a lot of things. For example: On the Navy ships, You cannot have a gay men with gay men in a berthing, for the same reasons you cannot have Men and women together in the same berthing. It's the same for Lesbians, you cannot have them with other lesbians. And personally, if I were in the Navy, I wouldn't want to change in front of someone who is openly gay, and have them looking at me the way a man would- but that's just me. Also, For those who are bisexual, how would that work? hmm.. Can't have one person to a room- not on a ship. If it's not openly put out there, then no one will act upon their urges.
>>Edit: YES, I know there are currently Gays sharing berthings.. BUT if they do away with DADT, they will HAVE to separate them, which is virtually impossible.
Do I think they should get kicked out for being gay, No. As far as benefits and what not.. I'm not going to comment on that because that gets me on a whole different Tangent on if I believe in gay marriage or not. And well That I'm going to leave to myself, and my religion on that one.<<
If they do away with it.. there will be problems.. or atleast I see a lot of problems! But hey, this is just what I think. You can choose to agree, or choose not to. That's why God gave us an opinion- This is mine.
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agree 100%!! THANK you for this!!
ReplyDeleteI love that you have spoken up about this subject.
ReplyDeleteBut as someone who has had first hand experience by actually serving in the military, there have been many openly gay women who I have changed in front of.(bootcamp and female berthing at work) I had no choice. There were no problems. They didn't look at me in a weird way, and I was comfortable with the whole situation.
And, there are gay men that my husband works with that he changes in front of. He's never experienced a single problem either.
It's all about boundaries and respect. Naturally, if another woman were to stare too long or even try to touch, the punishment would be great.
It's the same type of harassment a man would get in trouble for if a woman were involved and vice versa.
And the stories of women shacking up are more common than you think right now. It happens. I've seen it. The consequences are not pretty.
Same thing goes for the men.
The reason I think "Don't ask, don't tell" should be done away with is so that homosexuals don't have to live with the fear of being gay.
It's not fair to reprimand someone for loving a person of the same sex.
Thanks for sharing this with us!
I completely agree. I'm all for gay rights and whatever. i have gay friends... but I see it as just opening a can of worms. The same way I see women on subs. Bad news bears waiting to happen.
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, the current system IS broke. It's not as simple as just asking someone if they're gay or straight and then never revisiting the issue again.
ReplyDeleteIf you're gay, it means that your significant other will never be able to have access to any of the benefits afforded to heterosexual couples, whether it's PCSing with your servicemember, having healthcare, or just having support from the FRG.
It means that you have to lie about what you did on the weekend and you can never take your significant other to a military function like a ball or promotion ceremony.
It means that even in the states where you are allowed to get married, you can't get married because if the military finds out, you risk getting kicked out.
It means that if you are being harassed for being gay, you can't go to your Chain of Command with your problem, because they might find out that you actually are gay.
You have gay people sharing rooms with straight people on Navy ships right now. You may disagree, but I am pretty sure that sailors have a good idea of who's gay and who isn't. It isn't as big an issue as a lot of people think, especially for the younger people.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with you. I understand people wanting to be themselves, but this is a work environment. These men and women work more closely than most other people do. It just makes it easier if there is a rule in place to not talk about it. Some guys would be fine with it, some wouldn't. It is just opening up a huge can of worms.
ReplyDeleteKudos to you for voicing your opinion on such a controversial subject!! It's so touchy because it basically comes down to your opinion on homosexuality, and that is a subject that few people want to talk about. The truth is that we all know there are gays in the military and there always have been. My problem with DADT is that I don't think a homosexual should be discharged if their sexual orientation is discovered unless it's somehow related to their job (maybe involving a subordinate). Work should stay at work, home at home...especially in the military where lives are at stake if you're not focused on your job 100%.
ReplyDeleteGreat for voicing your opinion! Your blog..blog about what you want!!
ReplyDeleteI disagree though. I feel like that is saying men are attacted to ALL women. Just because you are gay or a lesbian...doesn't mean you are checking out all men and women.
I think I have a stronger feeling about this, being from Boston. We are VERY protective of gays and lesbians there. I feel that all people, regardless of sex, color or religion should have ALL the same rights.
I have mixed feelings about the issue, but I do completely agree with Samantha.
ReplyDeleteit's not just about being able to voice whether or not your gay.
it's also about the fact that you can get dishonorably discharged from the military if it is found out that you are gay.
I have a friend in the Army who was dishonorably discharged, along with a bunch of other females who were all determined to be "gay" -- even though not all of them were.
it's much, much more complex than I think your post made it out to be.
Sorry if I get this wrong. I am Canadian so am not 100% sure about the DADT thing. My understanding is that if they find out you are gay you will be kicked out of the military. I 100% do not agree with this and don't think anyone should. It's not about asking on a job application. It's illegal to ask that here. It's about not being able to fire someone because of who they love.
ReplyDeleteHow is it fair that Joe can talk about his wife Jane with no fears of losing his job. Yet Jill can't talk about Sue who she loves very much. How is it fair that Joe can bring Jane to family functions yet Jill can't bring Sue?It is not fair.
As for the argument about showering with an openly gay person. Be it openly gay or not they are still gay. The only difference is YOUR issues with it and that if they are openly gay you are no longer under the false feeling of comfort.
With all due respect, I must disagree with your position on DADT. To convey how I feel about the situation, I first challenge each of you (commenters included) who think that the current system works to consider how different your life might be if your spouse were gay or lesbian.
ReplyDeleteThink about the ways that you benefit from your husband's service. Do you live on base? Does your spouse receive extra BAH each month because you are his/her dependent? Or, if you used a VA loan to buy a house, did your own income supplement your spouse's to qualify for a greater loan amount? Do you shop at the base commissary without needing to be accompanied by your spouse? Do you use the gym on base? Are you enrolled in TRICARE, arguably one of the best health care plans in the country?
Think about each time you've attended an event sponsored by your spouse's command, or anytime you've picked up or dropped off your spouse for work or deployment. Did you need to think each of those times about how your interaction with your spouse might lead to an investigation and eventual discharge? Has your spouse ever been stationed overseas, and if so, were you allowed to follow him or her there, and possibly obtain legal employment in that country? If your spouse has ever deployed, were you offered any support by the command (even a phone number to call)? If your spouse died in combat, would you be the first to know, or would you need to wait until someone in his/her "real" family told you?
Now, think for a minute how many times each day, on average, your spouse mentions you at work. Maybe someone asks what he/she has planned for the weekend, or even what his/her spouse made for dinner last night. One commenter said "work should stay at work, home at home." Is that really the case for all of your spouses? Or is your spouse afraid to even acknowledge your existence in the workplace?
In your post, you said "You cannot have a gay men with gay men in a berthing, for the same reasons you cannot have Men and women together in the same berthing." Do you realize that you already have gay men with gay men in a berthing on ships? All getting rid of DADT would really change is the ability for gay servicemembers to serve without having to lie about themselves. Maybe in your mind on this issue, ignorance is bliss? Well, that's not a good enough reason for me, or for the 13,000+ servicemembers already discharged. We should be able to expect enough discipline and maturity in our armed forces that they will not act on any sexual urges regardless of whether or not it's "openly out there" that there are gays in the midst.
I'm fortunate enough to live in a place where I could marry my boyfriend, and I hope that someday I'll be able to do just that. But for now, he's serving in the Navy, and marriage (or adopting children together, for that matter) simply isn't an option as long as DADT and DOMA exist.
Of course, each of you is entitled to your own opinion. But if you, as a spouse receiving the benefits of "officially" loving a servicemember, still support DADT after thinking about these implications, then I'd be lying if I said I wasn't the least bit ashamed of you.
Casey, My opinion on the matter doesn't change after you post what you did. It's not ignorance, it's my Opinion.. it's my belief. And because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it ignorant nor does it make my opinion and belief wrong. I don't say that your opinion is ignorant nor do I say it is wrong.
ReplyDeleteWe may have gays sharing berthings right now.. they point is, if it was put out there, and they do away with DADT, they (the military) would HAVE to separate the two, which is virtually impossible.
None of the other countries in the world that allow openly gay servicemembers segregate their troops the way you propose, and they continue to function appropriately. What makes you think that our military would HAVE to do so? Because it makes someone uncomfortable knowing (and not being forced just to guess) that their fellow troop is gay?
ReplyDeleteThey separate men from Woman.. What is the difference? Honestly?
ReplyDeleteI acknowledge that those are similar situations. However, gay and straight servicemembers of both sexes already live together largely without incident. Enacting DADT did not suddenly remove gays from shared barracks; they're still there. When I said "ignorance is bliss" in my original comment, this situation is what I was talking about. [Note that ignorant means lacking knowledge of something. In this case, your preferred scenario is, indeed, ignorance.]
ReplyDeleteI simply don't think the housing argument on its own is strong enough to justify continuing to deny the integrity of gay troops.
Firstly, This post is MY opinion.. it's not denying gays anything. It is what I believe. I believe that IF they do away with DADT that have to actually open up the fact that there are Gay men in a berthing with other men. The DADT, allows it to be ignored. They will be forced to acknowledge that, which would then mean they would have to figure out how to separate the two, as they do Men from women.
ReplyDeleteAGAIN, This is What I believe. This is my Blog, you have the option to agree or disagree with me, but coming to my blog and saying what I believe is ignorant, and I don't understand the "facts" is a big misconstrued.
I Know the facts, and WITH the "facts" I still still stand firm on my beliefs.
You have your opinion, I have mine. It is what it is.
Up here in Canada we do not have a DADT policy. We have people who are out and proud and you know what happens in the showers and living quarters? NOTHING! Men are with men, women are with woman. Separated based on the parts we were given not based on who we love.
ReplyDeleteChristina, I don't believe that Casey was trying to call you or your beliefs ignorant. He was simply saying that the military under DADT is an "ignorance is bliss" scenario - meaning that people (theoretically) don't know who is or is not gay and thus can live happily. You even said so yourself when you said that under DADT, people can ignore that gay and straight people of the same gender are sharing living space. I don't believe it was meant as a personal attack on you or your beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI was going to leave my own comment to this blog, but Samantha, Sespi, Anonymous, Nolie, and Casey did a great job at that already. I couldn't agree more with the five of them.
ReplyDeleteAs for you Christina, I respect your opinion as well, I just don't agree with it. Great post and awesome feedback!
This about more than just gays serving in the military, this is about human rights. Why anyone would choose to limit another indivuals rights based simply on their sexual orientation is beyond me. I don't comment on blogs often, so maybe I do not have the right to throw my opinion around.But in this case I have a hard time controlling myself. Your opinion, quite frankly, is archaic and out dated, ill-informed and sad. And while you are entitled to your opinion, maybe you should fact checked your information. Check the stats on male/male and female/female sexual assault vs. male/female assault in the military. Last year there were 2300+ rapes in the military.. would you like to guess how many of those (reported) rapes were same gendered? According to a white house study 8.2% of sexual assaults reported to military authorities in fiscal 2009 were homosexual in nature. Nearly 97% of reported rapes were heterosexual in nature. Further more I would like to know how many gays do you know (actively serving or civilian)? Can you look your fellow American in the eye and demand they choose between their orientation and serving their country?Equality is apparently a touchy subject with you, and for that I am truly sorry.
ReplyDeleteWhat does rape have to do with this? My opinion has nothing to do with Equality. My opinion is just that.. my opinion.
ReplyDeleteSo, if I agreed that they should do away with it.. You wouldn't be here, on my blog commenting. Just because YOU feel that because I think we should Keep DADT that my opinion is Old fashioned. Well, I'm an old fashioned kind of girl. And With all the "facts" being thrown out there.. I still stand firm on my beliefs.
You have yours, I have mine.
I don't believe in Gay Marriage or honestly with homosexual ways. That is because of my religion and my own personal beliefs. But that has NOTHING to do WHY I think they way I do about DADT. I'm one of the ONLY people you see that have posted for the alternate view on things.
I am the spouse of a military person AND I also served 20 years in the military. My dad, brothers, inlaws, nephews and daughter either currently serve or have served. I served with gay comrades and I even shared a dorm room with a lesbian in my first years in the military. I wasn't threatened by her and didn't feel like she should be in a room with all gay people. I can assure you that your husbands and wives are NOW in berting units and serving with gay commanders and NCOs.
ReplyDeleteMANY of our allies allow gay members to openly serve - without incident, without negatively impacting morale or unit cohesion.
Serving myself, I have been sexually harassed by men my entire enlistment. The DADT policy allows men to harass and assault females and when the female turns them in, the male calls the IG and says the female is gay so then she gets investigated and is victimized AGAIN. Thanks to the DADT policy. Canada ridded themselves of DADT and the sexual harassment of female military members went down by more than 43% because now women are empowered to turn in the perpetrator without the risk of being falsey accused and investigated for being gay.
Ending DADT not only allows our brave gay members to openly serve (again they are NOW serving on land, air and sea), but also frees our female service members from being sexually harassaed and assaulted without facing retribution for turning in the perpetrator.
The EXACT arguments people are using now to keep the DADT policy are the arguments people used to keep African Americans segregated. I think we can all agree our militay is better today because Truman ordered the military to desegregate with executive order 9981. When we are FULLY integrated with gay folks openly serving and women serving in all military jobs, we will be an even better and stronger military.
I LOVE my military and I loved serving my country for 20 years. I want our military to be the best in the world and I think this will help us to continue to be the best in the world.!
Martina Sternberg
In my opinion, this is rather simple. When gay marriage becomes federally legalized in the US and the federal (not state) government legally recognizes them, then DADT would have to be removed. But until it's recognized on a Federal level, it shouldn't be because the "spouses" wouldn't be able to legally obtain any rights to begin with.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I'm Catholic, that should say it all :)